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Post by Moz on Nov 17, 2007 18:02:38 GMT 7
What do you like and don't like about the LS3/5A. Discuss it here.
To start off, let me quote some of the perceived "weaknesses" from our Malaysian LS/35A counterparts:
The compiled "weaknesses" from the Malaysian LS3/5A group:
> Hello Fellows, > > Weaknesses recorded now has the followings; names in > bracket indicates person raised. > 1. Lack of Bass(Jo/Edwin) > 2. Too much MSG (KY) > 3. Too colourful (KY) > 4. HF roll off. (KY) > 5. Price. (Felix/Edwin) > 6. Power hungry due to low efficient drivers > (Vincent Tan) > 7. Demand in amplification (Yuk Tak Lau/Ng+friends) > 8. Limited Loudness (Edwin/Ng+friends) > 9. Lack of both extremes causes emphasis in midrange > (Ng + friends) > 10. Limiteed dynamic contrast (Ng+friends) > 11. Lacking in scale of imaging except midrange > (Ng+friends) > 12. Wooly bass (Ng+friends) > 13. Cupped vocal (Ng+friends) > 14. Cannot express anger, aggression, explosive > sound (Ng+friends) > 15. Fussiness in set-up & system matching (Ng) > 16. Demand a dedicated & treated room to sound good > (Ng) > 17. Works only in small room (Ng)
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Post by shushu on Nov 17, 2007 20:51:20 GMT 7
My main concern is that the ls3/5a colours the sound expressing a too high level of treble, especially the 15 ohms. Some people think that it has to be accepted as the typical sound of a ls3/5a, but I dislike that. This is also frequently named the "nasality" of the ls.
The problem is from 2 khz to 15 khz, so it is not only caused by the general output of the tweeter T27, it begins with the output of the bass-midrange speaker B110.
I use to flaten the amplitud/response curve with some fabric or some selected pieces of paper, I get a great experience in this! ;D
Beware also the excess of energy at 1 khz in the 15 ohms, especially the last ones, say serial numbers in the Rogers from 28000 to 30500. It was almost solved in the 11 ohms version.
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Post by splendor on Nov 17, 2007 20:52:45 GMT 7
If I read all this, I wouldn't buy one! So buy them first and then you'll know why many go gaga over them despite the above.
REG of TAS thinks its a colored speaker. But he likes Harbeths and Spendors that LS lovers don't seem to care much either. Love the music first and come to understand why the LS sounds the way they do!
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Post by Moz on Nov 17, 2007 20:58:08 GMT 7
A lot of the older 15ohmers drivers have gone off spec which accounts for the irregularities in the 1khz band.
Despite some of the drawbacks cited above, LS users still hang on (for life) to their speakers. In my case, it's presentation jives well with the type of music I listen to and the LS gets it right just the way I want them.
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Post by splendor on Nov 17, 2007 21:35:21 GMT 7
Glad Shushu you pointed it out. The LS treble can overstate things easily. But it's also the source of some of the most "airy" space that help in its specificity of the images. The closer gap between speakers creates a holographic space that connects the whole stage together. Almost mono-like stability.
On the excess energy at 1kHz., and this has been reported and explained by no less than Derek Hughes himself of spendor that there is a rise 1-3 dB in the 900-1.2 kHz region when the surround gets weaker over time.
That has been minimized to some extent but still inavoidable despite the change from butyl was it to pvc. The change has resulted in less nasality. A little more neutral less tizzy sweeter treble as well. The terms "bark" (for the bass hump) and "squak" for the treble that some of the drop-in replacements like studio 3 from Rogers and the Harbeth P3es as well as spendor S3/5 have been removed and corrected. As a result, they don't sound like the LS3/5a at all. I can attest to this coz I also own a Rogers Studio 3. The Studio 3 is rated "G" by "HiFi Choice" mag while the LS3/5A is given an "A." No, "A" does not mean excellent. It stands for the rating "average." My JPW P1 even rates better than the LS3/5A! Yet I find the LS still an expressive speaker on human voice and most instruments of music. And these are the two most important aspects I think of its design for the broadcast that makes the LS3/5A the "better" tool for the industry. Why it found its way into the homes of people like us is quite another story to tell.
Could it be that most good recordings, the ones that simulate "live" as really "live" come thru easily like it is with the LS3/5A? Even "poor" recordings are being helped in a way that you can still enjoy them specially on most acoustical music. I have a lot of el cheapo Laserlight, Naxos, and some european classical collection that I enjoy immensely on them.
On the "nasality" issue. This appears to me as its own coloration to the sound for the same reason that a more "neutral" sounding speakers may also sound thinner and emaciated. I think the LS3/5A was not designed to sound like most commercial "hifi" speakers out in the market. If that was the only requirement for the BBC's broadcast, there would have been no need for the development of the LS3/5A.
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Post by shushu on Nov 19, 2007 1:08:40 GMT 7
A lot of the older 15ohmers drivers have gone off spec which accounts for the irregularities in the 1khz band. What do you mean? That getting older after the sell, the B110 sp 1003 of the 15 ohms went off spec? No, I don't think so. But during the long history of the sp 1003, the 2 materials that Kef was buying to elaborate them, bextrène (membrane) and neoprène (surround), suffered changes of specifications, sometime without any information provided to Kef (because they needed small quantities of these industrial products). This caused variations in the spec of the sp 1003 and urged the BBC several times to modify the crossover, especially the "notch-filter" for the 1,2 khz. From my own experience, the excess of energy in the 1 khz is almost always a bit annoying in a 15 ohm, and almost never in a 11 ohms.
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Post by shushu on Nov 19, 2007 1:18:53 GMT 7
, LS users still hang on (for life) to their speakers. . Of course, the important thing is the ability of the LS to transmit all the informations of the music ( of the record, in fact... ;D)without almost adding anything of its own. I have been listening to ls3/5as (3 pairs: one Rogers 15 and two Spendor 11) exclusively since ....1985.
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Post by splendor on Nov 19, 2007 4:38:01 GMT 7
Thanks for correcting what I said about the "suspension" material. It should read "neoprene" instead of "butyl."
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Post by Moz on Nov 19, 2007 6:25:54 GMT 7
A lot of the older 15ohmers drivers have gone off spec which accounts for the irregularities in the 1khz band. What do you mean? That getting older after the sell, the B110 sp 1003 of the 15 ohms went off spec? No, I don't think so. But during the long history of the sp 1003, the 2 materials that Kef was buying to elaborate them, bextrène (membrane) and neoprène (suspension), suffered changes of specifications, sometime without any information provided to Kef (because they needed small quantities of these industrial products). This caused variations in the spec of the sp 1003 and urged the BBC several times to modify the crossover, especially the "notch-filter" for the 1,2 khz. From my own experience, the excess of energy in the 1 khz is almost always a bit annoying in a 15 ohm, and almost never in a 11 ohms. Yes you are right about those situations during production. However there has also been some B110's (the Sp1003 ones) that have now aged and now drifted beyond the BBC specs such that there is a noticeable midband peak at around 1-1.5khz. Paul Whatton I think even documented some of the anomalies to go as high as 6db. Derek Hughes of Spendor fame also noticed it in some of his units. He admitted that it's the drive units that change (not the crossover) and suspect that the peak is most likely due to the rubber surround changing due to the effects of UV, moisture, and fatigue. I've heard some unites with the SP1003 and 1 of these has a hot midband. Sometimes it would make the presentation seem clearer but with a bad recording it's quite annoying.
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Post by splendor on Nov 19, 2007 6:59:04 GMT 7
And this "off-spec" thing that happens (such as the peaky rise from 800-1.2kHz) will not make an ageing LS3/5A sound better as always reported.
I vividly recall a discussion about the "peak" in the Brit LS group, and it was Derek who gave a very good explanation to it exactly as mentioned above.
It's best to keep the LS 3/5A in a dry room with less humidity to avoid its bad effects on material. Any suggestions on how to do that in the tropics? A big humidity box? And for prospective buyers, it's best to buy your LS from the U.S. or any temperate western country because their weather somehow slows down the dying process of materials.
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odaey
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by odaey on Nov 20, 2007 22:34:16 GMT 7
It's best to keep the LS 3/5A in a dry room with less humidity to avoid its bad effects on material. Any suggestions on how to do that in the tropics? A big humidity box? And for prospective buyers, it's best to buy your LS from the U.S. or any temperate western country because their weather somehow slows down the dying process of materials. I use an electronic dehumidifier to maintain moisture levels in my music room. This is quite a necessity from where i live. Depending on the season, i get to use this 2-3 times a week. My room is 16x30x11 ft (WxLxHt) and i get to extact around 8 to 15 liters of water per week. This also maintains temperature if you don't need to cool the room especially during cold months and just want the moisture out. I have a yamaha G3 piano which sits in the middle of my music room and it greatly benefits from the effects of the dehumidifier. I see this as a big help for owners of quad electrostatics as the story goes that esl 57's that were sent to the far east usually had problems as vapors were absorbed by the panels and became heavy producing audible changes. As these units were shipped back to uk, during transit the moisture evaporates and by the time it got to quad it was working fine. This is the main reason thats keeping me from owning Quad esl's (aside from money to pay for it)..
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Post by splendor on Nov 21, 2007 7:35:10 GMT 7
Do they have a smaller version of this? This is such a good thing. I keep my cameras in my dry box. And why not a dry box de-hu for a room. Thanks for tis Rodney!
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odaey
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by odaey on Nov 22, 2007 15:05:59 GMT 7
Do they have a smaller version of this? This is such a good thing. I keep my cameras in my dry box. And why not a dry box de-hu for a room. Thanks for tis Rodney! The unit is actually just around 20 inches high. It automatically sleeps once the settings are reached until it senses moisture again. It gets to extract around 20 liters maximum a day. It works by first removing moisture in the room then once desired dryness is reached it then maintains the temperature in the room. I have a friend who imports and sells similar units after seeing it's usefulness in humid environments.
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Post by splendor on Nov 22, 2007 15:59:32 GMT 7
Can you give us an idea of the cost? It looks nice and at 20 inches that ain't cumbersome or obstrusive. Is this not hard to maintain? Thanks Rodney.
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odaey
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by odaey on Nov 23, 2007 8:08:51 GMT 7
Can you give us an idea of the cost? It looks nice and at 20 inches that ain't cumbersome or obstrusive. Is this not hard to maintain? Thanks Rodney. I got my unit around 6 years ago at Anson's alabang town center. Costs a little over 5,000 pesos then, 6 mos. to pay zero interest. Now i believe prices are in the range of 8-12 thousand pesos. As you said it's not that big. I usually place it in the middle of room leave it on overnight then empty it's contents in the morning. When not in use, i just place it in the back corner of my room. Since it has wheels it's easy just to roll it aside. I had to replace the fan bearing once as it developed rust when i forgot to empty the water receptacle and left it full for about half a year.
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